A few quotes that says it all:

"War paralyzes your courage and deadens the spirit of true manhood. It degrades and stupefies with the sense that you are not responsible, that 'tis not yours to think and reason why, but to do and die,' like the hundred thousand others doomed like yourself. War means blind obedience, unthinking stupidity, brutish callousness, wanton destruction, and irresponsible murder."
Alexander Berkman

"War is a racket. It alwyas has been. It is possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, and surely the most vicious."
Major General Smedley Butler

"Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." The Lord Jesus Christ

A useful idiot.
Sheesh!

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"Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." The Lord Jesus Christ

His disciples carried swords, hence the warning as one of them drew on well armed Roman soldiers.

Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?" "Nothing," they answered. He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors' ; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied. (Luke 22:35-38, NIV)

Here are some other useful notions.

"He who beats his sword into a plowshare ends up plowing for he who does not."

"The difference between a massacre and a war is whether or not the aggressors encounter defenders willing and capable of fighting back."

"The common characteristic of victims is that they are unprepared to fight with overwhelming force when attacked."

Anyway, Cathy, thanks to Bush's wise use of overwhelming force, Iraq is becoming pacified enough for the US-trained Iraqi military to handle most of its defense needs. The Bush plan has succeeded and we can soon begin bringing more and more troops out of that arena.

Strangely, Obama insists we should send more troops to attack Islamists in Afghanistan to "create more terrorists" as Democrats claimed we were doing by fighting them in Iraq.

Democrat insanity would disqualify them from election if only their minions weren't so incredibly stupid.

Remember those quotes when you go to sleep at night....Someone is fighting for you so you don't have too.....

President Bush didn't send me to Iraq, I volunteered. No one made me join the Army, I chose too. No one made me re-enlist for 6 more while I was there. I did so because of what I believed and was made to believe more by what I saw, because my eyes don't lie...I also served in Afghanistan were we are also winning...Since you are into quotes here is one that fits this topic:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."
John Stuart Mill

In your case Cathy, a Man or Woman....on both fronts....

quote:

Originally posted by ParaVet:
President Bush didn't send me to Iraq, I volunteered. No one made me join the Army, I chose too. No one made me re-enlist for 6 more while I was there. I did so because of what I believed and was made to believe more by what I saw, because my eyes don't lie...I also served in Afghanistan were we are also winning...

All we ask is do the same as the Korerean and Vietnam vets...close the door on your way out.

I know that the veterans are full of good intentions and I aplaud them for it, but you can't expect me to encourage people to fight in a fake war.Who is the enemy? There is no clear enemy no matter what you say. We've killed a huge number of innocent civilians, and even if we hadn't what the hell business is it for the US to try and force democracy on Iraq?
The place never has been a democracy. Look at Kuwait, we were protecting the democracy of a despotic Emerite that had never been a democracy.
The whole thing is an ambiguous lie. They trick these well meaning soldiers into fighting for the sake of sleezy war profiteers, not for the people and not for decency or democracy.They don't respect the democratic or constitutional rights of those here at home, what makes you think that they care about people in Iraq? The Iraqis want us to leave.Vioence for the sake of violence.When you see a Republican comming into to office you know it means one thing, WAR, WAR AND MORE WAR.

I hope I can help answer some of your question. I assume they were asked in the spirit of a quest for information...

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what the hell business is it for the US to try and force democracy on Iraq?

The business was to eliminate Saddam's regime. Saddam started an international war, attacking neighboring countries, demonstrated willingness to use chemical weapons on innocents and pursued nuclear weapons. He was granted a temporary cease-fire after his forces were driven out of the nations he invaded - but Saddam would not stop fighting.

In 1998, President Clinton got Congressional approval on the Iraq Liberation Act that committed the USA to eliminating Saddam's regime. Naturally, once we destroy an enemy nation's government, we finish the job by helping them set up a new government so they don't lapse into anarchy. Clinton's Iraq Liberation Act specified we would set up a democratically elected government once Saddam was out of the way.

Clinton failed miserably. Bush got the job done.

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Look at Kuwait, we were protecting the democracy of a despotic Emerite that had never been a democracy.

Actually, we were protecting our nation's very survival. Saddam's agenda was to expand his blitzkrieg and seize control of the Middle East oil production. He had the fourth largest military in the world and figured he could do it. Once in control, he could cut off oil to the US and anyone else he felt like. Saddam had to be stopped.

I'm surprised that you seem okay with Saddam waging a NAZI-like Blitzkrieg into Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Isn't he the Bad Guy in your book?

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The Iraqis want us to leave.

In truth, the Iraqis are so grateful that we stayed to help them fight off Islamist takeover that even the Sunnis have joined up with American forces to re-stabilize Iraq.

Iraqi neighbours rise up against al-Qa'eda
"Awakening" movements across Iraq are helping to rid Sunni neighbourhoods of extremist influence
Link

Al-Qaeda leaders admit: 'We are in crisis. There is panic and fear'
Al-Qaeda in Iraq faces an “extraordinary crisis”. Last year's mass defection of ordinary Sunnis from al-Qaeda to the US military “created panic, fear and the unwillingness to fight”.
Link

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you can't expect me to encourage people to fight in a fake war

Is this another Hollywood production, like the fake moon landing?

Seriously, do some reading here. Saddam threatened to attack the US and was apparently behind several attacks on our soil resulting in thousands of innocent Americans killed. At what point do you think we should have put an end to it?

Surely you recognize that BUSH DID PUT AN END TO IT.

Iraq's War Against the US - The Hidden Details
( Link )

Vikman, at this point it seems the ONLY thing the US can do to ensure failure in Iraq is to leave.

Failure in Iraq is of vital importance to some...it validates them I think.

Weird.

.

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Vikman, at this point it seems the ONLY thing the US can do to ensure failure in Iraq is to leave.

No doubt that is why Democrats kept insisting we should summarily pull out - that the war was a "failure" and it wasn't worth losing any more American lives.

Now that Obama has taken over, the Bush plan is the way to go. Keep the troops there until the job is done.

The Iraqi government already indicated they expect they won't need our troops any more by 2011.

I'm just kicking down the Nike ads.

Well, despite years of Democrat screaming about how Iraq would be a horrible failure... the Bush plan has succeeded!!

Some one said in the context of the Middle East following 9-11, "this war will be like no other that we have ever fought. It will be a war longer than any war" (before). The economic world in 1787 was turned on its ear. The United States, post inactment of the Constitution, realined that any person have an opportunity to ecomomic success. Today, there are several examples of others(post WW2) embracing a portion of the qualities of 1787, but the viewers of this 1787 event struggle with the might of the founding principles that has elevated the world. Almost overnight, 5000 years vs. our 220 yrs. Foreign values that are experienced by our soldiers in far away lands, reaffirm that most people of the world only want this same opportunity. War Lords, Kings, Queens, Dictators, success is by political appointment, have continuted to suppress the concept of individual responsibility begets opportunity. The individual must earn this opportunity (Iraq 'Baghdad at Sunrise'). The blood of our soldiers has given more opportunity to more people than all the remaining world history. Do not throw the baby out with the water. Our recent combat veterans display individual resposibility a thousand fold beyond what you or I would experience in a life time.

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Some one said in the context of the Middle East following 9-11, "this war will be like no other that we have ever fought. It will be a war longer than any war"

That has already been proven true. The Islamist war against the US began shortly after our Congress signed the Declaration of Independence. Islamist warships attacked American ships.

President George Washington attempted to pay off the Islamist government of Tripoli to leave our ships alone. It worked only briefly - the attacks resumed.

Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Koran and came to understand what drives Islam. He asserted that we would never be free of their aggression unless our nation was ruled by Islam or demonstrated submission to Islam. Jefferson insisted that would be unacceptable for our Free Nation.

So, at Jefferson's insistence, our nation created its first Navy and Marine Corps and went out there and kicked the Islamists' butts. Our defiance has not been forgotten.

Thomas Jefferson and the Barbary Pirates of Tripoli
Link


Islam will continue attacking us and all other nations until we all submit to Islam. For the USA, this war has been going on for over 200 years already.

Let's not forget - Washington's approach, an effort to make peaceful treaties with Islamists, does not work.

Jefferson's solution, killing them until they stop attacking us, works.

Iraq is yet another demonstration of that.

War is a form of diplomacy even though it is only favored by idiots