with the influx of millions of illegal aliens and their gang banging illegal offspring and the militarization of domestic law enforcement.And believe me the military units that are in domestic law enforcement arent here to round up illegals or gangs THEY ARE HERE TO ROUND UP YOU AND ME just look at the aftermath of KATRINA In NOLA the brainwashed SS UNITS known as SWAT will shoot you dead if you refuse to turn in your weapons.You should be VERY afraid

Yes the CCW is legal through out CA but you have to re apply in the county when you move.

Je

Any non-gang-affiliated non-felon with no history of mental illness should be able to carry a loaded firearm anywhere they please.

quote:

Originally posted by subdjoe:

quote:

Originally posted by jaromin77:
Yes the CCW is legal through out CA but you have to re apply in the county when you move.

Je

When SF issued marriage licences to same sex couples, and Mayor newsome was braying about SF supporting full civil rights for all citizens I called and wrote to the Sheriff in SF, and to the mayors office asking how I could get a CCW from SF - given that SF supported full civil rights for all citizens of CA. Where should I go to get mine?

I was told, orally and in writting, that SF does not issue CCWs and will not recognize a CCW issued by another county. BUT, if notified in advance by the issuing authority, they would as a professional courtesy (and grudgingly I take it) recognize the legality of such a document. While any challange would likely be successful in court, who needs the grief to be the test case?

I also note that the PD linked to this thread on the front of their web page. Maybe we can get enough honest citizens commenting on this that some of the capons on the board of stuporvisors will take notice.

added: Maybe one of the writters at the PD could do an honest piece on what has happened in other states that have become shall issue in the past few decades. Contrary to the hopes and wishes of Sarah Brady, The Divine Ms. Di (Feinstein), and the rest of the powerful and well financed anti-civil rights lobby there have not been shootouts over parking spaces or people playing music too loud. At least not by honest citizens with CCWs. At worst it has no effect at all. At best, and empirical evidence supports this, it causes a significant reduction in violent crime. See the CDCs MMWR from 3 Oct, 2005 (I think that is the right date). See also the NAS report, ordered by anti-gun Clinton, that was released last year. Both cited report after report that showed that there was no increase in violent crime when honest citizens have the right to carry. Both showed taht those states that did become shall issue had reductions in violent crime. Both said that they couldn't prove anything, and needed more money for further study. One guy on the NAS board actually broke ranks and said that the NAS report was bogus, and that his distinguished colleagues were blind to what the study showed - that armed honest citizens were a positive force for good in their communities, and that they were letting their politics and hoplophobia get in the way of honest conclusions. But that is very typical of the leftists that make up academia, a good portion of the media (including the PD) and just about all the elected officials from this are.

quote:

Originally posted by me:
And the mouse roared! Please, police agencies will not put loaded weapons into the hands of civilians because they are already scared witless about the weapons out there.

I was a working LEO for close to 20 years and it was always pretty clear to me that I had absolutely nothing to fear from a law abiding citizen who chose to own a firearm.

quote:

The problem is police vs. civilian rights to protect themselves. That said, it is still a misdemeanor to carry a loaded, legal gun. Big deal, unless you could lose you job over a misdemeanor weapons charge. I know I could. Good topic, the sheriff is an absent (living in Sac), detached admin. guy. We need CCW in Sonoma like nobody else.

So your solution is to encourage people to break the law rather than change it?

quote:

IMHO, ban all guns or allow all guns. I'll take either option for 100$ Alex...Me

Outright prohibition will not work. See the examples of Washington DC and Chicago as exemplars.

CCW, so few words, such a big deal, is it a right, as in thev second amendment? Or simply a prililege no longer in vogue, and therefore too good to be shared with the average citizen? When did the average lawabiding citizen become so distrusted ass to be catagorically denied a segment of the law that exist for honest folk to pack a firearm responsibly, after all bad guys have no such pleasantrys to dissuede them from tootin firepower! There are incidents galore, shootings, stabbings, robberys, rapes, home invasions, the occasional homicide, to suggest we inhabit a society that could use protection in large quantities, so why then do law enforcement officials seek to hold out the permit process as unattainable, and challenge everyone who lives, works, and travels here to be criminalized for trying to protect oneself, or depend upon the timely response of law enforcement as a panacia to protect against all forms of evil doers. The next time someone runs me off the road, calls to me with intense hatred, insults me, religion, and my sexual preference, and then proceeds to threaten my life I would like to formulate an appropriate response.

subjoe, at least you admit you have never applied for a CCW and yet stand here to complain about it not being issued to you. Please explain why that's not hypocritical or why anyone should give the slightest weight to your complaints?

For all we know there is a very good reason you are not telling us. I'm going to trust the judgment of the Chief of Police in Rohnert Park who has worked in that city for over 30 years over you.

I have no pity or sympathy for you. You simply can't complain until you apply, pay the fee and are denied. Until then leave the crusade to those with who actually entered the arena of battle. There are too many critics on the sidelines already. You have not earned the right to complain.

quote:

Originally posted by misanthrope:
subjoe, at least you admit you have never applied for a CCW and yet stand here to complain about it not being issued to you. Please explain why that's not hypocritical or why anyone should give the slightest weight to your complaints?

For all we know there is a very good reason you are not telling us. I'm going to trust the judgment of the Chief of Police in Rohnert Park who has worked in that city for over 30 years over you.

I have no pity or sympathy for you. You simply can't complain until you apply, pay the fee and are denied. Until then leave the crusade to those with who actually entered the arena of battle. There are too many critics on the sidelines already. You have not earned the right to complain.

Realistically, it would be a foolish thing to apply, unless you were rich enough to enter a lawsuit when denied.

This county does not issue to the average law abiding citizen; it is as simple as that.

If you apply and get denied, that stays on your record. It could easily hurt your chances of getting a permit if you moved to a more 14th amendment friendly county (or if the electorate here ever wakes up)

the last time i checked, every citizen in this country has a CCW. it was issued July 4, 1776 by our founding fathers using the 2nd Amendment.

A ballot measure? start collecting signatures and get it on there.

CCW's shouldnt be a discussion or a debate it should be as simple as do you have a criminal record or not? are you legalally and mentally competent?

knock yourself out, oyu are responsible for your actions if you pull a gun and use it you better be prepared to answer for your actions if you acted hastily.

As a Past CCW permit holder, i see no reason why law abiding citizens in SoCo are denied permits

Me is right about the police fearing the armed citizens. I bet Ca police are trained in the academy that anyone holding a gun at a crime scene that is not a member of LE is a threat. And should be treated like a criminal. I know a buddy and his father is a CO he has a CCW but he too fears the police if he ever had to use his weapon when he is out of uniform.

In Texas things are different the police are trained that law abiding citizens may be armed at a crime seen before they arrive. This is reality for Texas, the training is harder for the cops in Texas. Because unlike the Ca cops can’t just shoot everyone who is holing a gun and not in uniform. Most cops will screem out I’m a cop!!! Don’t shoot!! when the other cops pull up.

Off duty cops have been shot and killed by other cops because they intervened to stop a crime and were not able to identify themselves to the police that arrived in time to save their own lives.

I firmly do believe the Police in Ca don’t care when an average law abiding citizen is raped, robed or killed as long as they can still go home safely to their family. And if that means shooting anyone at a crime seen that is holding a gun and not in uniform that is what they will do, whether or not the “suspect” is really a criminal is not as important to them as going home safely.



__________________________________
Quote from ME

And the mouse roared! Please, police agencies will not put loaded weapons into the hands of civilians because they are already scared witless about the weapons out there.

I would love to be able to legally carry a firearm. However, as we know here in California that is not likely to happen, legally that is.
If I had a real need to carry one, then I probably would regardless of the law, fortunatly though, I dont have a real need to at this time.
I was born and grew up in Texas where throughout my earlier life I always had a collection of guns, all sorts, pistols, rifles, shotguns, paramilitary, even fully automatic. Here in California at this time, I dont own even a BB gun. I do not want to end up in the California Prison machine. Back in Texas during all that time, about 20 years, I did not have any problem with LE regarding my weapons. No citations or arrests as a result of owning firearms without permits even though I was stopped a few times off and on while carrying a firearm. A couple of times I was stopped while on my way to practice shooting. As long as the firearm was in sight or locked in the trunk and unloaded it was ok.
I dont think California will allow people to carry firearms any time soon if ever. However, as someone mentioned the only way to change this would be through legislation. The NRA or similar organization would need to make a coordinated effort to gather votes and make this a reality.

This is the traditional way of getting a CCW law on the books but there is another method to motivate people to get he job done.

It’s my own idea and I call it the snowball effect, most think it could never work, but most people not only don’t like new ideas but they grossly underestimate human greed.


There are two attempts to make all of Ca or any county in Ca have shall Issue status.

First money is collected by people who want the CCW law passed and placed in a trust fund. Fundraisers are also held with the proceeds going to the trust fund after several years the pot grows to several million dollars. The pot is given to any organization/person who can claim responsibility for placing a sensible CCW proposition on the ballet. If the prop fails to become law the process is repeated one more time but this time the pot is only given out what the prop passes.

If the process fails the first time there is no question it would succeed the second time. Could it take years or perhaps a decade for the money to grow to such a huge amount that some motivated person would finally take the challenge and succeed to collect the money? It might but if you really want a CCW law you have to look at it like a tax and put into the cause every year. We all pay our Fed taxes and we get nothing in return. If every year we all put several hundred dollars into a fund for a CCW we would stand a much better chance of having what we want.



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Quoye by

deanwrmr



The only way you are going to change things here is to elect Supervisors that will support CCW permits, or elect a Sheriff that will do the same. The reason the liberals have taken over politics in this county is that they push their agenda. Granted, they outnumber conservatives 4-1, but that always wasn't the case. If you want CCW's here in SoCo, you need to be vocal. Get a good candidate and get them elected to the Board of Supe's or elected Sheriff.

It's all about geograhpy... The farther you live from SF or LA the more likely you are to issued a CCW. Mendocino county routinely issues CCW's to law abiding citizens for personal protection. Lake county issues them regularly with a reason. Other than a criminal past, I haven't heard of anyone complaining about being denied. Those Sheriffs believe people have a right to protect themselves because the police are not 30 seconds away.
The Board of sups gives a lot of elected Sheriffs their marching orders. I wonder what the reason is here in Sonoma County.

To whomever said that we cannot take the law into our hands is incorrect:

837(1)(2)(3) states:

A private person may arrest another:
1. For a public offense committed or attempted in his presence.
2. When the person arrested has committed a felony, although not
in his presence.
3. When a felony has been in fact committed, and he has reasonable
cause for believing the person arrested to have committed it.

841 of CPC

841. The person making the arrest must inform the person to be
arrested of the intention to arrest him, of the cause of the arrest,
and the authority to make it, except when the person making the
arrest has reasonable cause to believe that the person to be arrested
is actually engaged in the commission of or an attempt to commit an
offense, or the person to be arrested is pursued immediately after
its commission, or after an escape.
The person making the arrest must, on request of the person he is
arresting, inform the latter of the offense for which he is being
arrested.

So the authority to make an arrest is in the code ladies and gentlemen, and an arrest is the taking the person into custody in case and in a manner authorized by law. If someone is in the commission of a felony, which depending on the code violation is a serious crime, the reasonableness to use the force necessary to make the arrest may be perhaps the use of a deadly weapon.